Coming up on KCC News. Close up Iowa education reform. The house making changes to the Governor Reynolds plan *** look at those changes and what that means for the bill's future. And Trump charged the former president now faces 34 felony counts how this could change his campaign. This is Iowa's news leader. This is Kcci Eight News. Close up. Good morning. Thanks for joining us. Welcome to close up. I'm chief political reporter, Amanda Brooker. I'm chief investigative reporter James Stratton. Thanks for joining us, Governor Kim Reynolds education reform bill passed the Iowa Senate last month. But last week, Iowa House lawmakers made several significant changes to the bill and sent it right back to the Senate. So I sat down with Senate Education Committee chair Ken Rosenbaum to talk about those changes and whether he expects to get this bill to the governor by the end of session. You have been *** large supporter of this bill. Tell me *** little bit about why this piece of legislation is so important to you. Well, it's important to me because it's important to Iowans. It's important to Iowa parents that have *** growing concern. About content both in maybe some course work and also books that, that they find is inappropriate for their Children and that's what's driving it. We never drive the agenda that people do. And I've had dozens, probably hundreds of conversations with parents, with teachers, with administrators and, and of course, with the governor, the governor made this *** priority this year and I've worked side by side with her and her staff to craft legislation that we think is reasonable. We hear *** lot of political rhetoric, of course, but I believe what we crafted in the Senate is quite very reasonable and I actually think is very consistent with what most schools are doing around the state. I want to talk about specifically that content piece at least the language in the version of the bill that the Senate passed says that content in schools has to be age appropriate, that definition says written description or *** visual depiction of *** sex act. Now, opponents of this bill has said removing books that aren't age appropriate is banning books. I know you have said this bill doesn't ban books, but this bill would remove some books from the classroom that don't fit that definition. I've thought about that term book banning *** lot because I believe it's in, in itself inappropriate for this conversation to say this is banning books would be the equivalent of saying that Hollywood bans movies. And what I mean by that is Hollywood in all of my lifetime has recognized that there's age appropriate films and that depending on the age of *** child that what's appropriate for, for one age is not appropriate for another. And that's the analogy I've often used is Hollywood and, and of course, Hollywood, they're purveyors of violence and sex. That's what they do. And they, all the rating system. I reviewed the rating system just this year again on how that's done. And it does recognize that age appropriate is *** very important component of any movie of any book, of any course curriculum. Now, moving to *** separate piece of this bill that the Senate and House do seem to agree on is that it would ban any instruction that's related to gender identity and sexual orientation in Iowa elementary schools. Um I talked to *** mom of *** transgender seven year old this past week who had told me that even though that her, her child will still retain freedom of speech and can talk about her identity. Having it be illegal for teachers to speak about her identity makes her child feel like she's illegal. What's your response to that? As *** lawmaker? There are uh *** variety of people, diversity of people in, in the world. And, but I think up until recent years, the boundaries that separated Children from some of these discussions were kind of understood by society and were in place. Uh I do not believe I don't think *** lot of Iowa parents believe that discussions, for instance, of gender identity are appropriate for great in, in the, in the bill. It's K through six and I think the vast majority of Iowans would agree with that. That, that conversation should be held. That's *** family matter, that's *** parent, child relationship and does not have to be part of the content of for all Children just in conversation with that mom. This past week, one thing she wanted clarification on from lawmakers is let's say so her daughter, she's out on the playground and some other student is calling her the other name and her daughter feels like that's bullying. She goes to the teacher and asks for the teacher to intervene and stop that bullying, but the teacher can't talk about gender identity. The mom asks, is my daughter going to not have help when it comes to her being bullied. That's *** very narrow circumstance which I'm sure is real to some people, but we pass laws to the to the masses not to the individual at, at times. And I would hope that *** teacher and administrator can have an adult conversation with that child and with the parent, the intent of the law is what's important here. The intent is that our professionals in the classroom don't play *** role of actually hiding important information from the parents. That's the intent of it. Do you still expect this legislation to be to the governor's desk by the end of session. And b what changes can we expect the Senate to make to this amended version? This is the legislative process at work, right. I don't remember how many pages the original bill was. It was very focused on parents rights and that's what we passed out of the Senate. And then the House did the strike all amendment which put, and we agree with much of the language that's in the house. We've always been on the same page with that, with this discussion. We just had about discussions of gender identity and age appropriate. The House and Senate are hand in glove on that. Um, the House chose to throw some other components of education into the bill. Smaller pieces of legislation that they had passed independent of this. And that's what I mean, the legislative process at work coming up. So, what do Democrats think of these education bill changes? We asked the state Senator Herman Corach and Trump charges his trial could start just *** month before the Iowa caucuses. How this could impact the former president and the other Republican candidates in the race? I know you couldn't hear it but read *** little bit of it. Yeah, I did. I'm, I'm generally familiar with the arguments that they're likely to make. Welcome back to close up. You just heard from *** Republican senator about the changes made to the governor's education bill. But what two democratic lawmakers think I'm joined here today by *** ranking member of the Senate Education Committee. Senator Herman Corach Senator. Thanks for joining us. Good to be with you. Well, you heard in that earlier interview Republicans say this bill is aimed at protecting kids and protecting parents rights. You've said on the Senate floor the opposite. Why do you disagree with Republicans? Well, I think they do try to market it as protecting parents' rights, but if you read the bill carefully, you'll see it does more to reduce parents rights than to promote them. I give you one example, the human growth and development that's been *** required part of instruction since, I don't know, since forever, since as long as I've been in the legislature, but now what the Republicans would do would exclude the discussion of gender identity and sexual orientation even for the parents of kids who want that kind of instruction. Now, one thing that people need to know parents who object to that instruction under current law, they can already opt their kid out of that. All right. So those parents have their rights protected. It's the parents who have kids who may be LGBT, who want their kids to get some guidance and some understanding about the world around them and how they're supposed to fit into that. It's those parents whose rights are being denied and it's not just the parents of BT Q kids, it's also the parents of majority population, let's say kids who want their kids to be able to understand the other kids in their classes, maybe their cousin or their neighbor or their school charm is LGBT. They want their kids to be able to understand that. That's we're growing into *** much wider world, *** more accepting world, *** world that people need to be able to have greater skills in relating to people who are unlike themselves. And that's why I think that those parents rights need to be respected as well. Not just the parents who object, their rights are already protected under Iowa law. One mom that I talked to this week told me she feels the opposite of that. She feels like this bill is necessary to protect all parents rights. Because in her perspective, she believes conversations like that you mentioned should be only between *** parent and *** child, not between *** teacher and *** child. And that she says her Children will not feel safe at school unless this law is passed. What's your response to that? Well, those parents, as I said, it's already part of Iowa law that they can opt their kid out of the human growth and development if they're uncomfortable with any of those topics for their kids, if they don't feel that their kids are mature enough or that they would cause them some mental discomfort, they can opt their kid out. Their rights are already protected. It's the rights of the parents who want their kids to have that kind of instruction both for the, like I said, for their own growth and development or to understand the growth and development of their cousin, their neighbor, their cub scout friend, those parents rights need to be respected as well. This bill would take those rights away from those parents moving to *** different piece of this bill because there are many changes in this bill. One piece would remove books from Iowa schools that don't fall into the age appropriate category. The bill defines that as *** description or *** visual depiction of *** sex act. Republicans say that's regulating obscene material, just like Hollywood regulates movies. What's your response to that argument? Well, you use the term obscene. The term obscene is defined in Iowa code. It's *** balancing test. It looks, it looks at parts that might be objectionable to some people. But then it balances that with the literary artistic, historic, scientific, philosophical guidance that might be gained from that and it applies *** balancing test to the definition. That's what we ought to be doing. What the, what the Republican bill does is simply focus on the description of sexual relations and say if it's got it in there, then the book is out. Well, by that standard, the Holy Bible would have to be removed from school shelves, right? Any kind of balancing test. My goodness. The Holy Bible is one of the most important books ever written for its values, literature and art and history and of course, above all else, moral guidance. But under the Republican test, those factors don't come into play. There are passages in the Old Testament that describe serial incest, that describe gang rape and dismemberment, that describe ***. If you only apply the test about describing sexual acts under the Republican standard, that book can't be in the school library where the kids might have *** chance to read it. Now, talking about the trajectory of this bill. We're getting close to the end of session and we have seen *** lot of education bills already make it to the governor's desk. *** lot of bills that would make changes in schools that Democrats have opposed vocally and the bill is still passed. This is one of the remaining bills you oppose that hasn't gotten to the governor's desk. Do you think that there's *** chance for Democrats to stop this bill? Well, I tell you what strikes me most about this bill is what isn't there? One of the things that ought to be addressed is mental health. Our kids in our schools are facing some real mental health challenges, whether it's the pandemic or school shootings or the internet and social media. Kids are under *** lot of pressure these days, but schools don't have the resources or the mental health counselors in place to deal with kids who might be in crisis situations. And I'm very concerned about that there's also *** teacher shortage. We had 1000 teaching jobs That were open at the beginning of the school year this year. Now, the bill in question does one thing about that. It dumbs down the standards for getting *** teaching license. It says you don't have to actually have done *** classroom experience, *** practicum or *** student teaching in order to get your teaching license, you can all do that through an online course. Well, I tell you, I taught school for about 40 years mostly at the university level, but teaching is *** lot about looking the kids in the eye and kind of sensing. Are they getting it or do I need to back up and reteach something, Senator. I'm sorry, but that is all the time that we have today for this interview. Thanks so much for joining us. Ok, I wish that, that something more effective with regard to teacher shortage had been in the bill. Senator. Thank you. Still to come on. Close up. Former President Donald Trump raising millions after he's charged with dozens of felonies. What those charges may mean for the Iowa caucuses? Come next, February can't hear it. It's just they have it in my ear. So they're like, ok, 30 seconds, 10 seconds, 40 seconds. Sorry to make you wait. No, no worries. No, we should be totally fine. Well, let's see you then you're gonna come. Yeah, just shout. Wonderful. Thanks for coming on. I appreciate it. Good to meet you. So yeah, don't forget that. No, no, no. So let me get this. Nice to see you Senator. I get, I, I have forgotten the point about the Bible. That was very good. Yeah, come on over, sir. Got *** little bit of *** Trump set up ahead of you. Remind me what your first question will be. 543210 minus one minus two minus three. And I never thought anything like this could happen in America. I never thought it could happen. The only crime that I have committed is to fearlessly defend our nation from those who seek to destroy it. That was former President Donald Trump at Mar *** LAGO last week, just hours after he was formally charged with 34 felony counts in *** Manhattan courtroom that made Trump the first former president in US history to face criminal charges. He pleaded not guilty to all counts on Tuesday, New York prosecutor Alvin Bragg accused Trump of falsifying business records in order to commit and conceal another crime *** felony in New York. The indictment says he To conceal potentially negative information ahead of the 2016 election. His next scheduled court date, December four. Prosecutors want opening arguments in the trial to start in January. That will be just one month before the Iowa caucuses. Trump's lawyers would like the trial to start next spring. Of course, during the campaign for that for *** little bit more on this. We are joined by Kcci political analyst, Dennis Gold Ford with *** look at what this means politically here in the hall. I say, always appreciate your expertise here on K C C I, especially on *** Sunday morning. Uh The first question I think is the elephant in the room uh is what this means for *** person running for president politically. It's certainly *** complication but much remains to be seen. We have to remember that there are several groups of Republicans. Uh One of which of course is that base, that uh establishment Republicans are afraid of, they don't want to offend. But, but former president Trump is wrapping himself around that base and they will be with him until the end of time. The, the those less committed to him, the less the more establishment Republicans will be the ones who say that they're worried about the possibility of this indictment coming in *** possible trial in the middle of campaign and primary season. So they're very worried about that and we're going to get to the timing here. Hopefully, we get time for that question. We talk about rallying the base in the, in the primary side of things. So even if it does rally the base in the primary, what does it mean? I guess no one, everyone wants to win *** primary, but they also want to win *** general. So what does it mean then in the general? Election if it gets to that point. Well, you know, I've heard Republicans say the only Republican possible Republican nominee who could not beat Joe Biden is Donald Trump. And that's what has these folks worried. But, uh, again, there's still substantial support for former president Trump. There's pretty good support for him here in the State of Iowa continuing along those lines. And we just don't know at this point, we have to remember that as with any lawsuit or legal case, the old phrase is if you want *** sense of what eternity is like, get involved in *** legal case or *** lawsuit. Yeah. And obviously waiting until December for the next, uh, the trial date that probably bodes well for that statement that you just made. If it even comes, then there could be delays still. So sure that gets me to my next question. The next court date expected to be here in December just two months before the Iowa caucuses. The timing here could balance that court process if it gets to the court process, uh, with campaigning here in Iowa, in New Hampshire, name your state and so forth up until Super Tuesday and beyond. How does the campaign balance both of that? It's something we've never seen before in us history. It depends upon the extent to which he's called to be in *** courtroom. He's not under any kind of supervision or house arrest. He's free to go where he wants and so he could well campaign while this is going on unless on *** particular day, courts in session and he has to be there. There was *** presidential candidate years ago, I believe it was Eugene Debs of the early 20th century who campaigned for president while he was in jail. So that's not going to happen with former President Trump at this point. But it will be an inconvenience. But I don't think at this point any more than an inconvenience he is using this process to not rally the base but also raise money off of it. We saw *** T shirt with *** fake mug shot on it. What does it can we unpack, I guess, uh unpack what it means exactly. Rallying that base and how the base basically follows him to the end of the earth in *** way that we have not seen with *** candidate in recent years. You know, Donald Trump didn't discover that base, so to speak, but he uncovered and encouraged it. We recall that in the 2016 campaign, Hillary Clinton unfortunately used that terrible term deplorables to refer to *** lot of Trump supporters. And these are folks with *** tremendous sense of grievance. They just feel especially the more urban areas have been disrespecting them. And Donald Trump is their standard bearer. And so to the extent to which they feel driven by grievances, Donald Trump is *** candidate of grievances in many cases, his own personal grievances, but that's why they rally to him. He's their standard bearer. He's the one who's going to stick it to all those people who in their view have disrespected them for so long. Talked to quite *** few of them outside of his latest rally in DA Court, they were lined up, you know, blocks down the way hours ahead of that event. I want to talk about the race in general. Last time you sat on this seat, there was only one other person in the race. It now seems there's obviously *** couple more, but they all seem to no matter if they're running for president or not back the former president in this case, why not go against him if you are running against him in the primary election? It's the base. Republicans again are caught because they know that uh primaries aside, they cannot win *** general election without that base, but they can't win with it alone. And one of the reasons why Trump lost in the last election particularly was independents and some more moderate Republicans decided it ain't worth the freight to use that old phrase, President Trump has *** lot of baggage. The question is how long Republicans are willing to pay the freight on that baggage? But at the same time, uh again, those folks are with him, he articulates their grievances and that's why we saw the speech we saw uh in Mar *** Lago the night of the indictment. It was the, it was his greatest hit, so to speak of his, his complaints about people around the country and politics. Sure, quickly. Also, the last time you sat on this seat, we, we asked what's taking so long for the Mike Pence's the Mike Pompeo's the Tim Scott's name them of the world to get in the race. So the same question still applies in this case, what is taking them so long to either say yes or no we're in or we're out. They know they can't get anywhere without that Trump base. I mean, notice how they reacted to the indictment. They didn't say it's time for the Republicans to stand up for law and order. They bought into the persecution idea, they bought into the political prosecution description that's been given of it. And some folks have said, if you can't stand up to Donald Trump, how can we expect you to stand up to Vladimir Putin or people like that? So that's why these other candidates actual or potential are really stuck at the moment until something dramatic happens with former president Trump. I said this the last time he sat on his couch, not gonna be the last time we talked to you. Uh heading up to the uh the February. I really appreciate your time and coming up on close up the other Republican presidential hopefuls you can expect to see in Iowa this week. Well, it will be *** busy week on the campaign trail here in Iowa. This week Republican presidential hopefuls will criss cross the state. Former Un ambassador Nikki Haley will be in Des Moines on Wednesday for *** town hall meeting and then Perry Johnson will be traveling through Iowa over the next five days. South Carolina, Senator Tim Scott, also returning to the Hawkeye State. He will make stops in Cedar Rapids on Wednesday. Scott has not made *** formal announcement on whether or not he plans to run for president, but he's already paid *** visit to Iowa as part of what he calls *** listening tour you heard from him right here on K C C eight news. Close up. We'll be following those candidates this week. Thank you for joining us. We will see you back here right next Sunday. Have *** good day.